Government vs the State

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Re: Government vs the State

Unread postby Azmodan Kijur » Fri Aug 20, 2010 12:52 pm

Not avoiding this, ICM. I will address - just sort of busy at this moment. :)
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Re: Government vs the State

Unread postby Intercourseman72 » Sat Oct 09, 2010 1:50 pm

no rush, take your time.
read the words of a wise intercourseman
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Re: Government vs the State

Unread postby UnwantedSunbeam » Fri Oct 22, 2010 4:38 pm

My US politics is limited, to sat the least, however there seems to be hate campain against Obama. The press is reporting that he is in for a demolition in the mid terms.

My question is: Is his policy so bad, or is the discontent over his religious views ?
One day Alice came to a fork in the road and saw a Cheshire cat in a tree. "Which road do I take?" she asked. "Where do you want to go?" was his response. "I don't know", Alice answered. "Then", said the cat, "It doesn't matter.”
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Re: Government vs the State

Unread postby DarthRavanger » Thu Oct 28, 2010 4:24 pm

UnwantedSunbeam wrote:My US politics is limited, to sat the least, however there seems to be hate campain against Obama. The press is reporting that he is in for a demolition in the mid terms.

My question is: Is his policy so bad, or is the discontent over his religious views ?

A little of column A, a little of Column B.
The muslim thing has been a smear that's been going on for a long time, and is still present. The Republicans object to the new health care laws, claim the stimulus was a failure, and object to his financial policies in general. Meanwhile, the Tea baggers (tea party they say) are pushing a social/fiscal agenda that's vastly different from the democratic party line, and their candidates are often inflammatory and lack the political skill needed to not offend or confuse by saying things like, I dunno, America is being taken over by atheism and secular humanism and we should go shoot up the place if we lose. (I wish we were taking over!)

On the democratic side, the liberal base isn't happy that Obama compromised on a number of issues (healthcare), they also object to attempts by the Administration to expand information gathering on electronic communications without a warrant. The base has been especially sensitive to this since the warrant-less wiretapping issue, and no one wants more violations of United States Signals intelligence Directive 18, FISA(but the liberals are unhappy with recent changes), and related laws. The Liberals also have a problem with Obama's efforts to ensure that the government can wiretap things like blackberries, facebook, or skype. The liberal base is also almost never happy about claims of state secrets (wikileaks FTW I guess).
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Re: Government vs the State

Unread postby Intercourseman72 » Mon Jan 16, 2012 2:32 pm

You see. If I come into your house with a bunch of armed thugs and claim that your house is now "our" house and that it's "our" society and you need to bow down and serve and obey me or perhaps one of my cronies whom you can vote for, well, you are still a free person and not my slave because you can leave so long as you still pay me taxes when you leave and don't evade them and follow all the procedures that I come up with and uni-laterally impose onto you (oh wait, you can vote and change the system and it's a social contract so you still agree to them and stuff), err, I mean that you, err "we" came up with. Not only do I, err, "we" have your, err, "our" physical but all the land, the neighborhood, the uninhabitable wasteland, all the other stuff around that "we" aren't going to even bother explore or improve or homestead, etc, and I, err, "we" also get to bound your children and their children to stuff that we decide for them and obligate them to before they are born.

Freedom and democracy, bitches!
read the words of a wise intercourseman
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Re: Government vs the State

Unread postby UnwantedSunbeam » Fri Feb 10, 2012 10:41 pm

Old ones are the best:

Democracy: Where any two idiots outvote a genius.
One day Alice came to a fork in the road and saw a Cheshire cat in a tree. "Which road do I take?" she asked. "Where do you want to go?" was his response. "I don't know", Alice answered. "Then", said the cat, "It doesn't matter.”
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Re: Government vs the State

Unread postby willow » Tue Feb 14, 2012 8:10 pm

Intercourseman72 wrote:You see. If I come into your house with a bunch of armed thugs and claim that your house is now "our" house and that it's "our" society and you need to bow down and serve and obey me or perhaps one of my cronies whom you can vote for, well, you are still a free person and not my slave because you can leave so long as you still pay me taxes when you leave and don't evade them and follow all the procedures that I come up with and uni-laterally impose onto you (oh wait, you can vote and change the system and it's a social contract so you still agree to them and stuff), err, I mean that you, err "we" came up with. Not only do I, err, "we" have your, err, "our" physical but all the land, the neighborhood, the uninhabitable wasteland, all the other stuff around that "we" aren't going to even bother explore or improve or homestead, etc, and I, err, "we" also get to bound your children and their children to stuff that we decide for them and obligate them to before they are born.

Freedom and democracy, bitches!


lol instead I will show up at your house, say this looks like a good place to live and move into the lot next door, then I ignore all your customs and rules and just do as I please, dumping my trash in your yard, taking your vegitables from the garden, park my car on your lawn. What do I care you have no right to enforce your rules on me, thats coercion. I should be able to live anywhere I want and act any way I want because since I didnt agree to your 'rules' I dont have to obey and you have no right to compel me. One wonders how long it would last before you decided to "compel" your neighbour to behave? Or would you, since coercion is wrong, just exercise your right to move since you no longer like the neighbours? One cannot even enforce property rights without a means of physical coercion so one would have to throw those out too. Perhaps I will just move straight into your house instead of the lot next door. You have no right to stop me or compel me not to since it is my desire to do so and preventing me would infringe upon my freedoms. Hell I could even refuse to acknolwedge your capitalist societies private ownership laws and insist that all property belongs to the commons and thus I am free to use any of your posesssions that I see fit. By your argument ICM there is little to nothing you can do about this. Except resort to forms of coercion that you despise so mightily.
Last edited by willow on Tue Feb 14, 2012 8:13 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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