[BLOG]: The Rational Skeptics Society stands in Support of Wikileaks and its Founder

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[BLOG]: The Rational Skeptics Society stands in Support of Wikileaks and its Founder

Unread postby dr210077 » Tue Dec 07, 2010 7:58 pm

This is a blog post. To read the original post, please click here »

The Rational Skeptics Society is often skeptical of conspiracy theories, from 9/11 to the idea that vaccines cause more harm than good. Today, however, the Rational Skeptics Society will officially oppose the US conspiracy against Wikileaks, from the arrest of its founder to the incitement to murder perpetrated by the american right. The Rational Skeptics Society stands firm in its support of free speech, free expression and freedom from US intervention against any person/peoples or organisation, whether the intervention takes the form of pressure to arrest, pressure to persecute or pressure to deny services.
"If we go back to the beginnings of things, we shall always find that ignorance and fear created the gods; that imagination, rapture and deception embellished them; that weakness worships them; that custom spares them; and that tyranny favours them in order to profit from the blindness of men."

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Re: [BLOG]: The Rational Skeptics Society stands in Support of Wikileaks and its Founder

Unread postby UnwantedSunbeam » Thu Dec 09, 2010 1:47 pm

The hypocrisy to this is unbelievable. One of the biggest claims for the involvement in wars in recent years was to free nations from the enslavement of their governments. Yet here is the US using every dirty trick it has to slander both wiki and Julian Assange.

The sad difference between our government and those that used to be in countries like Iraq, is that Sadam was honest about controlling the masses. State controlled TV, media was accepted. Here they lie and tell us there is freedom of speech. Except when you speak or post it, you become hunted.
One day Alice came to a fork in the road and saw a Cheshire cat in a tree. "Which road do I take?" she asked. "Where do you want to go?" was his response. "I don't know", Alice answered. "Then", said the cat, "It doesn't matter.”
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Re: [BLOG]: The Rational Skeptics Society stands in Support of Wikileaks and its Founder

Unread postby willow » Fri Dec 17, 2010 2:19 am

The US government has preconviction come down hard on the suspected source of the Wikileaks files, Bradley Manning a gay US soldier who worked in intelligence. According to an article just publised in Salon, he has for the past 7 months been kept in solitary confinement for 23 hours a day, prevented from excercising (which makes muscle atrophy a serious concern), is denied pillows and blankets and is also routinely drugged with antidepressents to prevent his mind from deteriorating too far due to the conditions hes in.
All this despite Manning being described as a non violent model prisoner.
http://www.salon.com/news/wikileaks/ind ... 14/manning
Interviews with several people directly familiar with the conditions of Manning's detention, ultimately including a Quantico brig official (Lt. Brian Villiard) who confirmed much of what they conveyed, establishes that the accused leaker is subjected to detention conditions likely to create long-term psychological injuries.


From the beginning of his detention, Manning has been held in intensive solitary confinement. For 23 out of 24 hours every day -- for seven straight months and counting -- he sits completely alone in his cell. Even inside his cell, his activities are heavily restricted; he's barred even from exercising and is under constant surveillance to enforce those restrictions....
denied many of the most basic attributes of civilized imprisonment, including even a pillow or sheets for his bed (he is not and never has been on suicide watch). For the one hour per day when he is freed from this isolation, he is barred from accessing any news or current events programs.

In sum, Manning has been subjected for many months without pause to inhumane, personality-erasing, soul-destroying, insanity-inducing conditions of isolation similar to those perfected at America's Supermax prison in Florence, Colorado...
medical personnel now administer regular doses of anti-depressants to Manning to prevent his brain from snapping from the effects of this isolation.

the type of prolonged solitary confinement to which Manning has been subjected for many months is widely viewed around the world as highly injurious, inhumane, punitive, and arguably even a form of torture.

the conditions under which Manning is being detained were once recognized in the U.S. -- and are still recognized in many Western nations -- as not only cruel and inhumane, but torture. More than a century ago, U.S. courts understood that solitary confinement was a barbaric punishment that severely harmed the mental and physical health of those subjected to it. The Supreme Court's 1890 decision in In re Medley noted that as a result of solitary confinement as practiced in the early days of the United States, many "prisoners fell, after even a short confinement, into a semi-fatuous condition . . . and others became violently insane; others still, committed suicide; while those who stood the ordeal better . . . [often] did not recover sufficient mental activity to be of any subsequent service to the community." And in its 1940 decision in Chambers v. Florida, the Court characterized prolonged solitary confinement as "torture" and compared it to "[t]he rack, the thumbscrew, [and] the wheel."


http://www.newyorker.com/reporting/2009 ... ct_gawande
http://theweek.com/article/index/210406 ... g-tortured
dirty work... the right google key words...
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Re: [BLOG]: The Rational Skeptics Society stands in Support of Wikileaks and its Founder

Unread postby HalloweenWeed » Fri Dec 17, 2010 7:24 pm

It never ceases to amaze me, the US citizens that preach liberty and fair justice, innocent until proven guilty, then you mention something like this to them and they are all like:
But he did this...
He's a damn terrorist, fry him
They wouldn't do that if he weren't guilty
He's a foreigner, he don't have rights
He's getting what he deserves

And then if I defend the poor guy, they start looking at me like I am a terrorist, or sympathizer to his "perceived cause" (regardless of whether or not it is his real 'cause').
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Re: [BLOG]: The Rational Skeptics Society stands in Support of Wikileaks and its Founder

Unread postby DarthRavanger » Fri Dec 17, 2010 8:14 pm

HalloweenWeed wrote:It never ceases to amaze me, the US citizens that preach liberty and fair justice, innocent until proven guilty, then you mention something like this to them and they are all like:
But he did this...
He's a damn terrorist, fry him
They wouldn't do that if he weren't guilty
He's a foreigner, he don't have rights
He's getting what he deserves

And then if I defend the poor guy, they start looking at me like I am a terrorist, or sympathizer to his "perceived cause" (regardless of whether or not it is his real 'cause').

Most Americans don't believe in the things that SHOULD make our country great. Sad, ain't it? Unfortunately, with so many Americans unwilling to even have basic human decency for people like Manning, we can't exactly say we're much good at all even if the founding principals are very good concepts.Too few Americans believe in them for us to practice what we preach.
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Re: [BLOG]: The Rational Skeptics Society stands in Support of Wikileaks and its Founder

Unread postby HalloweenWeed » Fri Dec 17, 2010 10:30 pm

DarthRavanger wrote:Americans unwilling to even have basic human decency for people like Manning,

My wife hates Peyton too :lol:
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Re: [BLOG]: The Rational Skeptics Society stands in Support of Wikileaks and its Founder

Unread postby willow » Sat Dec 18, 2010 5:30 am

http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/co ... 04607.html

the pentagon is claiming that Manning isnt being mistreated and is provided the same priviledges as all other "maximum custody." prisoners. What it fails to mention or explain is WHY Manning is a maximum custody prisoner given he is a non violent model prisoner. The pentagon also fails to address the fact that the kind of treatment given to "maximum custody" prisoners is itself considered mistreatment by most western nations.
dirty work... the right google key words...
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Re: [BLOG]: The Rational Skeptics Society stands in Support of Wikileaks and its Founder

Unread postby LilithLorelai » Sat Dec 18, 2010 12:59 pm

If they (we) convict Manning... I'm never leaving California. .. If we excecute him I leaving America.
...And everyone was suprised?

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[BLOG]: The Rational Skeptics Society stands in Support of Wikileaks and its Founder

Unread postby Azmodan Kijur » Sat Dec 18, 2010 3:52 pm

This whole situation is rather ridiculous. Though the states certainly did not want the diplomatic documents released and though some of the material contained within them is quite intriguing, little of it appears "probative" if you follow me. I doubt it has caused that much harm - harm has been caused, but it is likely quite limited.

For Assange, he might be creepy, he might be a rapist, or whatever. But railroading him to punish Wikileaks is meaningless. I doubt he is the man that presses "Submit Secret Documents" at the site. He is not the man that receives the documents personally. He is not the man that operates the servers nor their primary financial supporter. He is the founder - Wikileaks is not Assange. It almost appears that people are under the impression that if they defeat Assange, Wikileaks will close it's doors. That might be true if the documents were served from his physical flesh and blood. But the man is not Wikileaks, just their public face at this point. Likely has a hand in the general ops to an extent, but also likely lets others handle most of that. Think of a standard rebel type group - get the leader and make an example of him and the rest Martyr the man. And given the rather dubious manner that these charges have been pursued with him, it is very easy for his supporters to claim a frame job or the like. This will not give the result the US and other countries want. It can't really.

On Assange and Wikileaks, we here at the Society do support his freedom of speech. Little of that material is "vital state secrets". Most is composed of the same thing that a lot of these so-called "secret, need-to-know, national security" documents are composed of - things politicians are embarressed over or would be if they got out so they classify them. Gossip and playground-style assessments that amount to little more than sour grapes and glorified penis waving.
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Re: [BLOG]: The Rational Skeptics Society stands in Support of Wikileaks and its Founder

Unread postby HalloweenWeed » Sat Dec 18, 2010 7:56 pm

Azmodan Kijur wrote:This whole situation is rather ridiculous. Though the states certainly did not want the diplomatic documents released and though some of the material contained within them is quite intriguing,

[...]

get the leader and make an example of him and the rest Martyr the man. And given the rather dubious manner that these charges have been pursued with him, it is very easy for his supporters to claim a frame job or the like. This will not give the result the US and other countries want. It can't really.

One could say the same of the US assault on Osama Bin Laden, huh? Some things never change, too many ppls never learn.

It's really just about politics, unfortunately.
Last edited by HalloweenWeed on Sat Dec 18, 2010 7:58 pm, edited 2 times in total.
Reason: It's really just about politics, unfortunately.
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